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Dave Winer - Scripting.com

Scripting News - 2025-07-07T19:43:35Z

Open + web == lost cause? - 2025-07-07T19:43:35Z

A longish thread that probably isn't going anywhere. My final thoughts, cc'd here to get on the record.

anyway it's feeling like a lost cause.

to be really blunt, i don't think AP or ATP are the answer.

and i also don't care so much about this style of conversation. and i loathe the character limits and the lack of style and links, and no titles, etc.

it can't only be for wordpress. i love the potential of wordpress, i think even more than matt does, but it isn't enough.

if it's going to be open and of the web it has to be simple and easy, and neither of them are.

bonus for blog readers: i would add, since i ran out of characters on masto, that the great thing about the web is that you can have an idea and be using it the next day. you can't say imho that you're part of the web if you don't deliver that kind of ease of access. it's not enough to have the potential of being open, it has to be accessible. I have that ability these days, but people who use the AP and ATP systems are in tight little boxes with no easy way to try something out quickly. (i know because i've been hooking things up to them for a couple of years now, and so far it's just an added slog, everything is far more complex than it should be)

maybe we'll get there through their api's, but i think at this point we know that won't happen.

ps: the web is a miracle. but maybe it's too fucked up now to have the miracle be something we can all experience.

pps: when i write on other systems i often leave out upper case, saving a little energy as i type. i find it more relaxing.

Linkblogging back to normal - 2025-07-07T19:34:41Z

I wrote this early this morning as a test post for my WordLand site.

Happy to report that my linkblog routine is back to normal.

I really shook things up there, and it probably wasn't a great time investment.

I had been using a custom front-end to FeedLand, which has a built in blogging tool, that publishes to the database that FeedLand manages, and of course also publishes an RSS feed. It was debugged and works. But now I have a new editor, and I want to use it for this, because my reader knows how to view all kinds of stuff, and one of the things I wanted it to work well with are linkblog posts. So, do a quick addition of linkblog stuff to WordLand.

Only thing is there is no such thing as a "quick addition" in a world built on CSS and HTML objects. Everything is a slog.

Anyway the slog is over! Whew.

Now back to my other slog -- timelines.

It's also starting to feel usable. People imagine that you just design something and write the code and voila it's usable (if they even think about it that much). But only until you have the pieces put together can you see the things you forgot to consider, and now you have to decide whether to rip up the thing you built or try to iterate to where you need to go. A lot of times it would be easier to start over, but programmers always want to do that. I'm no exception. Once it's working somewhat the code becomes locked into how the pieces fit together. If somehow they need to fit together differently, given it's CSS and HTML you'd better scrap it and do it again or you'll go out of your mind adding the next layer of features.

Honestly we were much better off before we tried to shoehorn an object model into a document format! Apps and documents are really different things you know.

Anyway now I have my first test post of the day.

- 2025-07-06T15:42:11Z
Kos is moving to WordPress. Very cool. It means people who write for Kos will be able to use my writing tools. I am sold on the idea of WordPress being the OS for the social web. That's the point of having a platform, we used to call it "users and developers party together."

- 2025-07-06T13:07:24Z
I saw that Matt backed off from porting Tumblr to run on top of WordPress, basically turning WP into an OS. I thought it was a brilliant idea, but probably overwhelming in complexity. But it was the right idea. We need fewer runtimes. If you can merge two runtimes, go for it. Anyway, this is all related to the "open social web" -- in fact it's central to it. We've got all these philosophically compatible platforms that are technologically unable to work with each other. But what if they all were really on the web? What could we build then? Everything. We would go back to the potential the web had before Twitter and Google Reader split the blogging world in two. I swear the answer is make it so that all these networks can do inbound and outbound RSS and build on the reality of the open social web, not just the hype.

- 2025-07-06T14:26:17Z
I asked ChatGPT for two sentences on the Innovator's Dilemma -- "[It] describes how successful companies can fail by focusing too heavily on sustaining innovations—improvements to existing products for current customers—while ignoring disruptive innovations that initially serve smaller markets but eventually overtake the mainstream. These disruptions often seem inferior at first, so established companies dismiss them, leaving space for new entrants to rise and dominate."

If there were a new Frontier in 2025? - 2025-07-07T00:47:00Z

I've been playing a little game, trying to answer the question -- if I had a modern implementation of Frontier that ran on Linux and new Macs, just as it was in 1992 when we released it for the pre-OS/X Mac, what apps would I want to hook up to it right away? What would the verb set look like?

I'd start with the native verb set we had in Frontier for accessing the file system. And HTTP verbs of course.

Then I would add glue for WordPress, GitHub, Mastodon and Bluesky, just because I think having really simple scripting for each of those would make (some) people's brains explode.

I once had a young fellow challenge me on whether there was such a thing as scriptable apps. I was reminded of the days when I had to explain it but no one got it, then one day everyone got it as if they always did, and now we're back at the beginning again. There is such a thing. You can think of an app as a toolkit. What's behind the UI? Let me call it from outside your app. Let me combine the features of your product with other people's product. And you can do the exact same thing for apps that are running on the web. It was something a lot of people tried to do, like Magic Cap at General Magic, but we got it working and had regular nerds writing apps as if it was not amazing. It was, and it's now a long lost art.

If a version of Frontier came up that I could run on a Linux system, I would wish for a really simple interface to Node packages. I've got a great collection. I'd want to use them right away asap.

I also would like to be able to write code in Frontier in JavaScript. I'm very fluent in it these days. I can still program in UserTalk, the two languages are basically the same thing, though UserTalk has some nice affordances they haven't thought of yet in JavaScriptLand, and vice versa -- there are even more things JS can do that we hadn't thought of, which is only fair, they've been working on it a lot longer than we did. The language was basically frozen in the late 90s, and the verb set shortly after that.

Oh what would I do? It's fun to dream.

- 2025-07-05T17:46:48Z
WordLand v0.5.19 -- Lots of little fixes.

- 2025-07-05T17:47:31Z
An improvement in WordLand on the server, we now post metadata to WordPress, along with the HTML rendering so that code that runs on the server can now access and possibly in the future even talk back to WordLand. You never know where this stuff can go if the developers take advantage of opportunities to interop.

- 2025-07-05T21:42:24Z
tinyFeedReader is a hit. But the docs aren't clear enough. It has no user interface, it's a package you can include in a Node app that calls back to you when a new item comes in from one of the feeds you've told it to watch. It's a totally teeny little framework for a feed reader, you get all the standard stuff tucked away out of site, you write the functionality you want to implement. It would be a good thing to turn over to your AI programming partner. It's for people who want to add a feed reader to something else.

- 2025-07-04T13:31:35Z
Today is Independence Day in the US, so how about an Independence Day for the web. One simple way would be to hook RSS up to ActivityPub, turning Mastodon and Threads into a big feed reader. It could easily be done in software, it would just take money to keep it running. Not something I could attempt personally. But I would totally help with the software and design. It would open the door for lots of new apps that could communicate with users through a single simple API. I want to talk with people about this at WordCamp Canada in October.

- 2025-07-04T13:32:26Z
How odd on Independence Day a law goes into effect that funds a secret police for the US. The goal is to flow people from inside the United States into concentration camps, and ostensibly deport them to other countries. It may turn out to be easier and less expensive to just gas them and burn the bodies right here in the USA. I listened to this morning's Daily podcast to hear how they summed up the bill. They focused on taxes and health care as most of the other news orgs have been doing. They were puzzled why the Repubs didn't seem to care if it hurt their electorate, but they didn't state the obvious answer. They don't care. Remember Occam's News. I guess they didn't want to say it out loud so they just telegraphed the question. It worked, message received.

RSS ==> ActivityPub - 2025-07-04T18:11:25Z

I'd love to see a bridge from RSS to ActivityPub. I've asked people at various companies if they'd do this. I'm happy to help with the software but operating the service is something for a trusted company to do.

I think this would go all the way to putting the "open" in open social web, because people who already know how to build RSS feeds would be able to quickly write apps that hook into AP networks. And of course it wouldn't have to be limited to RSS, it could build on Atom and RDF equally well.

It think it's tragic that it's taking Ghost, for example, so long to get their service up fully, and it suggests that smaller devs don't stand a chance. I can't wake up one day and have an idea of something that would work well with Mastodon, for example, and have a prototype running the next day.

If you think this is a good idea, post a link to this post somewhere developers live, and let's see if we can get a cooperative project up and running.

And if you don't like RSS, Atom or RDF, invent an orthogonal format and we can work with that too. I know people have strong feelings about this stuff, not a problem.

PS: I asked Tim Bray to comment, and he responded. Sounds good. We've known each other for decades, going back to the early days of XML.

- 2025-07-03T13:22:34Z
WordLand v0.5.17 -- Two changes with linkblog support.

- 2025-07-03T11:36:00Z
BTW, this is where we're going with WordLand. We can have a nice social web that builds on simple open formats. I will make an instance of this to show it can be done, both sides, reading and writing. They will work wonderfully with each other. You can write a nice reader and/or writer and it will work with this simple network. A technological coral reef. Think of the MacWrite and MacPaint of the open social web. Enough to get the ball rolling.

- 2025-07-03T11:34:29Z
Looking forward to putting linkblogs in WordLand to bed, I don't think too many people other than myself will use the feature, but I wanted to get it right and then move on.

- 2025-07-02T21:13:47Z
WordLand 0.5.16 -- Rounding out the linkblogging features.

- 2025-07-02T15:26:05Z
Software internally is mostly pipes connected to other pipes, each adding a specific quality to whatever passes through it. If you have nice standards for what you send through the pipes, you can do more of what you imagine. This is called orthogonality. Factoring is when you notice a repeating pattern, give it a name, and a set of things you can do to it, those would be names of pipes. I have to ask ChatGPT what it thinks about this, but I am also asking my human friends. BTW I expect this seems so natural because our minds probably work that way too, internally, below our conscious awareness.

- 2025-07-02T00:06:24Z
More feedback on the design of Bluesky's API.

- 2025-07-01T18:40:18Z
Bullshit. Lisa Murkowski goes on a press tour and sounds like she could be the one that breaks away from Trump in the Republican Senate. As with all of them, always, it was an act. She has a role to play, she's The Agonizer. They are amazing in terms of how organized and orchestrated their campaign is.

- 2025-07-01T11:25:31Z
The archived source for June 2025.

My new linkblog feed - 2025-07-01T11:44:29Z

This is the address of my linkblog feed: dave.linkblog.org.

I think it's kind of interesting to have the top page of a site be a feed. I don't hide the XML-ness of it. I never supported the obfuscation, it's confusing, makes people not trust RSS, imho.

I think the feed is pretty stable now, so if you want to subscribe, go ahead. I haven't redirected from the old feed yet, probably should do that soon, since it more or less has stopped updating.

This is all managed in WordLand and therefore is part of the WordPress ecosystem.

I felt it was time to do a definitive linkblog, since as far as I could tell no one has tried to explain what it is: basically, a feed where the <link> element of each <item> points to some other site. That's the basic difference.

Also a linkblog feed should specify the channel-level <image> element, which is used as the avatar for the feed when it appears in a twitter-like timeline.

I think the only other product that is open to feeds being part of the open social web is Surf from Mike McCue's company, Flipboard. I asked ChatGPT to brief me on how it works with feeds, and saw that we're more or less doing the same thing, except I'm not trying to work with the output from Twitter, Bluesky, etc. Even when they have outbound RSS feeds they aren't good enough to be part of the social web defined by feeds.

I only want really good feeds. It's time to stop being so careless about what we transmit to the world. If we want an open web we're all going to have to be good gardeners. It's like a food system where all the food is grown by family farmers and I'm running a restaurant, and only want the good stuff, and we want it to look good too! :-)

PS: Another thing, the feed items must have working guids. All software that runs on feeds should be able to depend on this.

PPS: Linkblogs aren't the only kinds of feeds that will be used in this RSS-based feediverse. Scripting News will work with it. You would be able to read this post in this new medium (not yet delivered, btw).

PPPS: More here and here.

#rss